The SaaS Bootstrapper Podcast

TSB010: Gabriel Murillo, Founder of Podcasting Press, on growing and scaling a ‘service as a service’

Listen now:

Episode overview:

Gabriel Murillo, Founder of Podcasting Press, on growing and scaling a ‘service as a service’. Podcasting Press is a subscription-based podcast editing service started by Gabriel Murillo. Gabe has found success as an entrepreneur at a young age with Creative Talent OnDemand and now Podcasting Press, clearing 6-figures within just a few short years. He created these businesses and others all while in high school and college.

Gabe’s discusses what to focus on and what to not get carried away with when starting a bootstrapped business. He gives his suggestions on launching an MVP, hurdles such as language barriers, the “imposter syndrome”, and more, and how he overcame them. His story is very inspiring, he gives lots of great advice, and cites many useful resources.

Guest links:

Podcasting Press

@gabrielmurillo on Twitter

@podcastingpress on Twitter

Mentioned in this episode:

7 day startup

Bold: How to Go Big, Create Wealth and Impact the World

Freedom Fast Lane

fizzle.co

Maverick1000

E-Myth Mastery: The Seven Essential Disciplines for Building a World Class Company

The interview:

Mac: Today’s guest is the founder of Podcasting Press, a podcasting editing service. He and his company takes raw podcast audio files, including intros and outros, edit them together, improve the sound quality, and sends it all back within a matter of couple of days. Gabriel Murillo, welcome to the show.

Gabriel: Thanks, man. Thank you for having me.

Mac: So, how’s it going in Louisiana today?

Gabriel: Fantastic, man. I’ve been here for five years, but I’m telling you, finally, this week we’re having this cold weather and I’m getting used to it, and I’m excited about that.

Mac: You’re enjoying the cold weather, is that what you’re saying?

Gabriel: Yeah. We were expecting last year, it was the beginning of December, we were already having that “cold weather”, but now it’s kicking off.

Mac: Yeah, good. Here too. We even had some time in the snow lately. It’s nice.

Gabriel: Awesome.

Mac: So, Gabe, where did this idea of Podcasting Press come from? Is this scratching an itch of yours from doing podcasts yourself or did you just know other people were having this issue of the time consuming process of editing podcast after podcast episode? Where did this come from?

Gabriel: One thing about podcasting, even before I talk about that, where the idea came from is, five years ago… I barely speak English. I’m still working on it but I think I’m a better job now… but podcasting really introduced me to a whole different world. And why? Because like you and I we’re having a conversation here. So podcasting really became something that it was not just like an audio book, or a movie or something, it was more of a personal connection with people all around. So in reality, podcasting, I think I started back with like Internet Business Mastery. I’m talking about like eight years ago.

It’s a very, very old school type of marketing show out there, but they’re still going. And then, of course there’s Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas, and all the big names. But yeah, I was a consumer of podcasting, and it was in Podcast Movement two years ago when I really started thinking about coming up with the idea and the business itself, and putting the whole thing together.

Mac: So you were actually listening to podcast episodes about starting businesses?

Gabriel: Correct.

Mac: Yeah, and so then it led to the idea of business about podcast or for podcasters.

Gabriel: Yeah. So, I mean I’m young, I’m 26, but I was 16 years old when I built my own like first website. I remember it was back in the day with Front Page, if you remember that day, right? So I was building websites and I felt, “Okay, I’m an entrepreneur. I’m Mark Zuckerberg because I’m building websites and selling them.” I was living back home like in Venezuela but I was getting paid in US dollars. I was 16, got paid for my first website in US dollars. And again, that website was worth one month of salary of my mom, and she was an academic instructor at a high level institution.

So that opened my mind to entrepreneurship and saying, “Okay, there’s a different way to produce value and to make money.” Even though my mom was having two… almost three jobs. I would say almost three because it was like part time and stuff. Took two full time jobs, which is literally one on top of… So the full time, from 8:00 to 5:00 at day, and at night there was another full time job from 6:00 to 10:00, and then on weekends, teaching. That’s how she raised three kids. But then, when I was younger and doing freelancing, that really exposed me to what is this all about? What is entrepreneurship all about?

Mac: That’s fascinating. So, did you go straight to Louisiana from Venezuela?

Gabriel: Yeah. So, yeah. My grandma, she moved here about 30 years ago. She got remarried here and we always come visit her. Then my mom retired, I graduated from high school, so I came here for college. I graduated from LSU here in Louisiana. So, yeah, it was like the perfect timing. So that was about five years ago. Yeah, it’s been a journey. Always I got to say that, that way I can give some context to the audience. I’ve always been doing freelancing and a lot of web design and building Wordpress websites, and the whole podcasting thing. I started doing my own podcasting in Spanish. Because of the lack of competition, I literally went into the top five in the business category.

I was very, very interested in learning about businesses and how to build these companies, because I had the experience of being a freelancer, which is very different from being an entrepreneur. But I thought I was an entrepreneur. I thought I’m owning a business because I was making money on my own. And I started from reading all the kind of books about entrepreneurship, but also finding, who are the people that are teaching and showing other people how to start online businesses? That’s how really podcasting got into my whole world. And then I said, “How can I be, instead of only a consumer, how can I be a producer of this phenomenal tool which is podcasts?”

Mac: So, what was that podcast about? I don’t know if you still have it going, but is that… I mean from such a young age, were you teaching, were you talking about entrepreneurship, or were you interviewing people about it?

Gabriel: Yeah, this is good for the audience. Most people that are listening here, at least that’s what happened to me. I’d say that’s the imposter syndrome that they talk a whole lot about. It’s like, well, you’re not an expert. You’re not good at anything yet. Okay? So I felt like I’m not good enough to be talking about starting a business because I don’t have one that is growing and is scaling. So that was the mindset that allowed me to be, “Okay, I’m a facilitator. I’m an instigator. I’m a learner.” And that’s one of my unique abilities, one of my strengths. I love to learn and digest content and consume it, and then apply that into multiple ways in my business, my life.

So yeah, my podcast when I launched it, I had only like 20 episodes that I produced. And I found like angel investors in Spain, in Latin America and all over, and I connected with them. It was so easy. I literally never had anybody turn me down because podcasting was not as popular as now. And they were like, “Wow, Am I gonna be in a show?” And they say, “Yes.” And so to me it was fascinating. And again, I became I think number three in the business category in Spanish. So I was having like thousands of downloads. And it was like about two and a half years ago when I said, “Okay, I wanna re-launch that podcast.” And I found so many roadblocks to do it myself.

It was taking me so long, I was getting on my own way, trying to learn how to edit and all the audio post-production, and then putting together the website. It was so much work. And I realized that it was easier if I can build a team that can help me do that, and that’s how podcasting was born.

Mac: So, yeah. So it sounds like it was scratching your own itch of needing to get this done and not having the time to do it.

Gabriel: Yeah.

Mac: So, what did that process looked like? And how far down that process did you realized that there’s a business there and that you could do that for other people?

Gabriel: Yeah. So I think Podcast Movement, the first one was two years ago. I believe it was between September or October, somewhere around that. So that was two years ago. I went to the conference. There was about only 300 people but I saw, “Okay, this is something.” And I go back, I think this happens a lot to online entrepreneurs when you have this massive wave coming at you and you say, “Do I jump or not?” For example, Google Adwords, about five, six years ago, it was the big thing, eight years ago. It’s still a big thing but everybody was doing massive amount of leverage using Google Adwords to promote either software companies or affiliate deals or whatever. Correct? But that wave is gone.

Mac: Right.

Gabriel: Right? Then Facebook Ads, two, three years ago it was racing like crazy. You still can do a lot of damage through Facebook Ads, but it’s not like two, three years ago. Podcasting to me, that’s when I went to Podcast Movement, that conference for podcasters, and then I said, “Okay, this is a wave. This is gonna be here for a while.” And I was looking for my own editor to help me produce my podcast and then I realized, “Okay, let me ask, let me test the water.” So that was December 14. Then in February of 2015, I registered an LLC and I said, “Okay, I’m gonna make this happen.” March 15, I put the landing page. I got my first big client in April.

It took me so much. One lesson so far I can tell the audience and people that are trying to start something, just move away from the whole thing. Just put together… You are all about MBPs, right? Just put your landing page, something you can sell, and make sure you got a good copy, good design. But move away from it. I got so excited with all the tool, with Infusionsoft, with all the automation, with all the scale, that it took me a little bit longer to really get traction. So in summer of ‘15 is when we really went from having 10 to 20, and then doing a lot of JBs and affiliates deals. And now, this year we have had over 120 clients, just different kind of shows. And we are learning so much about podcasting.

But again, the biggest lesson is, man, you just got to make sure the copy is… If I can dump all my money into something, if I were to do an MBP, I would do it in a phenomenal copywriter that understands my audience. And of course design, it’s easy to put together. You just have to have the main elements about design, good fonts, good colors, and yeah.

Mac: So you took some care into the presentation of it and the wording. It sounds like you’re saying you got slowed down and sidetracked by getting ahead of yourself, doing too many unnecessary things, like setting up big pieces of software that you might someday need, hopefully. Is that what you’re saying about it?

Gabriel: Yeah. So I’m a geek when it comes to tools. And without them, I couldn’t run the business that I run now, which this year I finally got it to a six-figure business. And I’m living the dream that I worked for eight, ten years now since I was 16. Even though I was not really working for this dream, but in reality I wanted freedom. Now I can say I have that amount of freedom, that I can have the flexibility and set up my own schedules, and relying upon the team. But I’m a tool geek, I’m all about them. Slug, project management tools, Trello, you name it. But at the beginning of Podcasting Press I tested… there’s Teamwork, Wrike, it’s another management tool.

So I was testing all of them and spending so much time. And then for ticket and support, I was using Freshdesk, and before of that, I was using Help Scout, and before of that… I used like four or five. And that’s what I meant. When I was trying to make it so perfect and I said, “Okay, if I get this, integrate it with Stripe, then I can get this integrated with this, and then it’s all gonna be magical, and I will have to do nothing.”

Mac: Yeah, trying to automate everything.

Gabriel: Which is never the truth.

Mac: Yeah, it’s never the truth.

Gabriel: It’s never the truth.

Mac: Yeah, you can get ahead of yourself in trying to solve problems that you hope you have. Right? You don’t need to set up this big, automated workflow when you don’t even know that you’re gonna have customers yet. So, yeah.

Gabriel: Yeah. And I do have to say, my biggest fear about that is I was a full time student in college while doing all of this. So I had to ensure that, “Okay, if I’m gonna be running marketing campaigns to get more clients into this, I got to make sure I can deliver. Otherwise, I’m gonna fail in the delivery of the promise that I’m making.”

Mac: Okay. So you were full time in college when you were getting this going. Right? So, you were doing some freelancing and clearly digesting a lot of information about ideas and entrepreneurs and probably learning a lot of things just from your freelance work. Was this your first idea that you really took seriously?

Gabriel: No, totally not. Yeah, totally not. Yeah, I can share a little bit about them, otherwise I’ll take hours. I get excited talking about this. But in a nutshell, having that ability to, number one, do web design, and number two, just manage and get resources on demand, like freelancers. That’s when I think about Peter Diamandis and the whole disruption about, you can literally have anything that you want on demand. His book called “Bull,” he talks a whole lot about demonetization, decapitalization. It’s like a 6D framework and he talks about that. So back then, I was able to quickly gather resources to put together some crazy idea.

Yeah, but from 16 to 26, those ten years, I probably launched eight or ten different projects that most of them never succeeded. Some of them made some decent progress. But companies itself, that’s been the only two companies. My main company is Creative Talent. What I do is service-based traditional web design and Wordpress production work, and I have a team of people that we work with that we provide that main service for podcasting. Those are the only two LLCs, or “corporations” that I have created. Other than that, ideas. Now looking into the future, I see Creative Talent on my main company, which many of the people listening can relate to this.

If they are web designers or software people, or developers like in your case, Mac, which I was listening to your episodes. You now see yourself… You can create. Correct? So you can come up with ideas and you can develop them. And if you have the team that can do all the other pieces that you aren’t necessarily good at, the marketing, the copy, then you have your own lab and you can test. But you’ll always have your monthly recurrent revenue established, and you say, “Okay, if we have X amount of monthly recurrent revenue, then I can sell from these ideas. Otherwise, I would just be failing at multiple ideas and never having any traction. Which is another problem that I have in the early stages.

Yeah, I mean the podcasting, it was definitely not the main idea. It took me a while to find out the business model which is something that I will be happy to cover.

Mac: Yeah, yeah. I’d love to hear how you… Was the idea for it to just be you providing the service? And did you feel like you’d be able to scale this? And how you’d find people, and could they be easily trained and would they stick around? I’d love to hear all about that sort of process, and trying to figure out from day one, are you able to edit all these podcasts yourself, assuming you’ve started to get customers? And what are you gonna do with the moment you start to get… hopefully you do get more than you can handle. How did you kinda prepare for that?

Gabriel: I think that what’s the biggest advantage for me is not knowing enough about audio production, because then wouldn’t get in the way. I would have to trust the experts. The people that I hired were audio engineers with experience in the field, especially in the film industry. So when they were editing podcasting, it was like going back to kindergarten, because there were editing movies with special effects and really advanced stuff. So audio podcasts, that was like a piece of… really, really simple to do. So trusting my team. But of course right now I do understand the fundamentals and the necessary notes that I have to have too.

It’s the difference between the technician, the manager, and the entrepreneur. This is out of the “E-Myth” book where he says, “Define who are you and who do you wanna be.” So in the podcasting business, I was not able to be the technician because I was not good enough to do that. In the Creative Talent, I am, so I’m always getting on the way and sometimes more than I should if I’m the entrepreneur. But I think the biggest mindset change for me was thanks to Dan Norris, he just actually sold his company to GoDaddy, WP Curve. I don’t know if you ever heard about him?

Mac: Yeah.

Gabriel: I’ll send a link and maybe you can have it in the show notes as well for the people. But he’s a brilliant guy, I met him at Chris Ducker, Tropical Think Tank event last year in the Philippines where John Lee Dumas was there, James Schramko, and a lot of big influencers were there. So he launched “The 7 Day Startup” book which he presented something that really changed everything for my business mindset. The ultimate, the dream business model, is Software as a Service. Who doesn’t wanna do that?

Mac: Right.

Gabriel: It’s phenomenal. You can scale it, you can build teams, you can live the dream. And I guess that’s what you’re covering. Most of the people that you have in the show are in that arena and it’s the ultimate thing. I never had the idea or the combination of the criterias that will make something like a Software as a Service happen. So then, he introduces something called Service as a Service, which is something I would call it even like below the scale of Software as a Service. Software as a Service is in the top, the best business model. The other ones, the other business models are freelancers, the others are agencies, and the others are info-marketing, selling products, and stuff and stuff.

And he compared all of those business models, and then Service as a Service is basically a very unique, very specific type of service. In my case, it’s like I said it. In his case it was worker support, and he was having something for like $80 a month, he will do unlimited worker support, which was insane. Okay? Then he built a specialized team, distributed team, across… In Asia and South America he built a team for like 30 or 40 developers, but then he scaled that model to he always having over a thousand clients a month paying $80 a month. So he reached a million dollar and it run great in a business that… It sounds totally crazy, but the only way they will be able to do it is by then being very specific on what they do or not, compared to an agency when you pretty much do “everything,” then it’s pretty hard to scale.

So I adopted that model to Podcasting Press, and we only do podcast production. We only do that, period. When it came to hiring people, and we have over… right now we have six fulltime audio editors and… But before we were testing and seeing, “Do we wanna do this service or not,” and I always came back, “Okay, can I scale this or not?” And now I know in the next three months we’re gonna hire two more people fulltime, and we might need four more people. But now I know specifically who they are, the skill set that they need, and it’s more manageable, that growth.

Mac: I assume that at least initially, you were the one doing the editing and that you would have had to spend a lot of time trying to really get good at that. And it sounds like that actually, potentially very wisely, wasn’t something that you were focusing on because you knew from day one that you should outsource this outside of yourself. So how did you go about finding those people to do that?

Gabriel: Yeah, and since that particular word, the “outsource,” that can trigger some butterflies for some people, right?

Mac: Yeah.

Gabriel: No, but it’s good that you say and it’s good that we talk about it because I do outsource some of the stuff, but there’s a misconception about that word. And before, hiring all the people to do what I was supposed to do could be called “outsource.” But having people in my team working fulltime for our company and growing with us is not necessarily outsourcing, even though technically it’s the same thing if I assign my non-core competency to somebody else. But long story short, I think, yeah, finding the right people is… When you’re hiring somebody to work full time for you, the hiring process, it’s different from when you hire somebody on Upwork or Elance.

Which, by the way, I used Elance and Upwork at the beginning of my freelance career. I have over 3,000 work hours in that platform. I was like literally crushing it in that platform before they emerged and before everybody in the world were trying to compete. So if you’re trying to hire somebody on Upwork or Elance, they most likely have five or six other gigs going on, and three months from now, they’re gonna find a stable thing and they’re gonna say, “Hey, Mac, I can no longer work for you, period.” And then you’re screwed. But if you provide and you try to hire for providing somebody a career, somebody that they’re really good at something that they’re really good at, something that they love doing and they’re capable, they got really high skills.

So technically, somebody that have the technical expertise. And so it’s kinda like a criteria to find that person. And to me, I’ve never met any of these people in person yet on my team, but I trust that criteria. Is he technical, prepared? Is he capable? And then can I trust this person? There’s some personality tests that I have going on before I hire somebody. And now after, I mean I literally have over 30 people work for me in the past two and a half years. And it’s crazy, I’m only 26.

But everything that I’ve done is always modeling other people. And podcasting, it’s the number one tool that I go and find help about, “Okay, how do I hire someone?” Then I find a podcast that they do that. Of course I find some books and maybe some conference and training, but yeah. I think finding people is having that criteria there.

Mac: So what has been your approach for actually getting the people to talk to, or who do you reach out to?

Gabriel: In my case, I pretty much have my own for [inaudible 00:20:23] and literally, it just come back to a job post. So there’s multiple sites that I post it. None of them are a freelancing site. Most of these are… If I’m hiring South America, in Venezuela, or in the Philippines, or here in the States, it’s always gonna be a traditional job posting maybe. I have to use LinkedIn and it’s amazing the amount of people that you can get. So, for example, you buy job post at LinkedIn for $150 or $200, it goes for a month, and then you put your job criteria there, and then after that it’s just filtering.

But then I immediately have a pre-designed set of questions, like six questions about them. So from something as basic as, “Do you have any other job?” or stuff like that, or from your internet speed or some basic questions that I pre-filter them. And then, “Are you available for an interview? So, when?” And then I have somebody on my team, they go and do the pre-interview which is like 15 or 20 questions. They do that in audio, and if they pass an interview, then I go and interview them for like an hour.

Mac: So, I assume at this point you have enough customers that you know how many hours you’re gonna need from them? So the way the service works is, I think for $97 I have basically a weekly episode that you will edit. So I usually do one interview a week, right? And then I launch it out that way. I know some people sort of do batches. They’ll do all four in a day or something. Are you able to sort of predict and set the time aside properly for people? Or do you all of a sudden get bombarded with tons of episodes that came in today, then all of a sudden like not much tomorrow? How do you guys manage that time? And are they able to just consistently say, “Oh, I’m gonna work for eight hours tomorrow, and that’s my time.” Or is it just crazy scheduling?

Gabriel: Yeah. Well, standards and processes has been like the number one thing for us to always measure. So what can we measure? And again, the “E-Myth” book, even the E-Myth… Let’s see, where is it? I thought I have it right here. Yeah, “E-Myth Mastery” is the one that I’m thinking about. They cover a whole lot of this processes and what should you be measuring in production and delivery of your services. So for us, matching the time… and there is a lot of business similar to this one. So, the one that I named about Dan Norris, the one that he sold to GoDaddy. People were asking the same questions.

And he’s a phenomenal writer, so he was very transparent about how he did the asset allocation or resource allocation and time management, all of that good stuff. So I learned a whole lot about that. Like I said, because it’s very standardized, our packages and our pricing are also tied to the amount of edits. So like in the case of the one that you mentioned. So, for 97, you get four edits. You get four edits a month. Some people, they say, “Hey, Gabe. I just recorded all of them in one day. Can I send you those in batch?” And I say, “Cool, that’s totally fine.” They will send four episodes but then for the next three weeks we don’t hear from him.

But next month, because he’s on automatic subscription, is MRR, Monthly Recurrent Revenue for us, and they are committed to us as well, we know we’re gonna get that payment again. And they will manage their schedule, that in the next four weeks, they got to send us the next four. So managing those and assigning those to editors, you pretty much realize that we can get like, you know, four or five podcasts per person per day. So that will come to about 10, 15 episodes a weeks, maybe sometimes 20, depending on the length. So we do a very simple… It’s all numbers-driven, and it’s very simple. Once you see the numbers, you’re like, “Oh, okay. That makes sense.”

Mac: Interesting. Yeah, it sounds like you’ve got some unique challenges there. Maybe they’re not entirely unique, but they seem unique to the businesses I’m often thinking about and looking at, so that’s interesting.

Gabriel: Yeah.

Mac: So can you talk a little bit more about how you, especially at day one, how you started marketing this, and how you started getting your first customers, and how you got the word out there about it?

Gabriel: Yeah. I was trying to remember that when I heard you ask that question. I think the first client was just a free trial that we got through our… It’s a community called… I forgot the name of the community. Fizzle.co is an online community for entrepreneurs. It’s something like $40 a month. I was not even a member of the community but the person that was helping me with the copy, he was a member of it, and he was commenting that, “Hey, I’m working on this project. We’re about to launch,” and then he got their first client for me, or for Podcasting Press, through that community forum, which is a bunch of really cool people that are doing online businesses primarily.

So he posted that, we got the first client. We got a testimonial right away. She was super cool. She’s still our client, Julia with Mixology. It’s a bar and cocktail podcast. Literally from day one until today, she’s been a client. Awesome people. And she gave us a testimonial and that’s what we put in the home page. Then right after that, the second client, I cannot remember from the top of my head. But I do remember that we launched that landing page, and there was like four or five months that we were really flat. It was only like ten clients or, you know, the first… It was under 20 clients. But then after I did the Tropical Think Tank, which is a Chris Ducker Conference, that’s when I met John Lee Dumas and the Entrepreneur on Fire community. He teaches people how to podcast, okay.

So in the training, there’s like 3,000 people that has signed up for that training. And the training is like $97 a month or $1,000 for the full package if you buy it upfront, right? So again, it’s like 3,000 people in there, massive amount of value in training. And every week, there’s a lot of value that is presented to the community. And still, there is dozens or maybe hundreds of people that haven’t launched their podcast, and it’s because of the technical difficulties. So long story short, I was able to talk to John and say, “Hey, we can help some people,” and he became an affiliate. After that thousands of clients have been referred through the Podcasters’ Paradise. Yeah.

So that was amazing and after that, after we have that name, it was pretty simple to talk to anybody and say, “Yeah, you know, John Lee Dumas is literally on the top podcasters out here in the U.S. at least.” So the credibility in building that trust was very powerful for us.

Mac: Yes. So he’s essentially promoting Podcasting Press in certain cases it sounds like?

Gabriel: Yeah, yeah, in the community, in the Podcasters’ Paradise community, which is pretty big and all for the podcasting world.

Mac: I know he’s got an enormous audience, so that’s got to be really good for you. That’s great. So did you already have an affiliate kind of program set up at the time or did you have to come in?

Gabriel: Remember I was talking about Infusionsoft, they call it Confusionsoft. I think it was month three, I signed up for Infusionsoft. And you’re talking about $300-a-month software. So I was like, “Man, I’m gonna scale this thing,” and I did this and I did that. So I had that and he was the only affiliate but I said like, “Man, he’s worth having if he’s gonna promote it.” And it definitely did. After like eight months, I switched from Infusionsoft. That’s when I got in my way again. I tried so many different tools until now we only have a Wordpress affiliate management tool, which is way, way simpler.

Mac: That’s really cool.

Gabriel: Yeah. Now, in terms of funnels or content marketing or affiliate mar-, like there’s nothing else that we have done and that’s what…it’s about to change this year. We’re about to re-launch our website. We’ve been working on it for the past two months and it’s amazing. I mean new logo, new brand, everything, new website. And for the first time, the first quarter of 2017, we’re gonna be doing a lot of Facebook Ads and Grit Marketing, and onboarding the clients, and a lot of training per se. So I know this first quarter, we’re definitely gonna scale, you know, 30%, 40% just this quarter.

Mac: That’s exciting. So that leads me to another question I had which is, what is your main role in this today? What is your day-to-day and then, how much time is it taking? And are you doing all these marketing stuff that you’re talking about? Or how much are you pulling other people in to help you with those things?

Gabriel: Yeah, that’s been critical for me at least in this month of December. You know, everybody is going on holidays. To me, I’m taking it to just do a lot of planning and thinking, “What am I good at?” And defining… Like two weeks ago I was in Austin on their Freedom Fast Lane event with a bunch of online people, very talented people. And then Peter Diamandis was there, which is… He’s my big hero. He’s just a genius guy. And he was talking about unique ability. They asked him like, “How did you get all of that stuff done?” and he said, “Well, I know exactly what I’m good at and what I enjoy doing.” And to me, since I’m young, I still got to do a lot more of exploration and see exactly what I like or not.

So far, I spend a lot of the time in Podcasting Press with team meetings. We do the daily stand-up, it’s a scrum methodology. Even though we don’t do any development, we use that daily stand-up, the weekly meetings. So the typical question, “So what was done since the last meeting, and what is gonna be done before the next meeting? Is there any roadblocks or challenges?” Those are the three questions that are the key to management. No micromanagement because when everybody is posting that in a daily basis, it’s very transparent and they are accountable for their own results. So we do that every week.

I’m doing the weekly meetings for now which don’t take more than two hours. One hour is the meeting but then one hour in just processing and thinking in. And I do a lot of the marketing for now. I wanna be involved at least for the next six, eight months. Like I said, this year I was able to… I just graduated from college by the way like last week.

Mac: Oh, wow. Congratulations. That’s awesome.

Gabriel: Yeah. So now that I’m free from having to divert my time between three things, now I can really go full on and spend the time and define what am I gonna do, and what am I not gonna do. But for now, I mean literally, I mean I got friends that are doing half a million, $2 million, $4 million businesses, and they are younger than I am. In fact, I’m part of the Maverick1000 group, which is an internet marketing group, and we’re called the “nexters,” 26 and younger, and there’s a criteria for that. So like I said, they’re very, very successful so I’m like, “Oh man, I’ve reached the six figure but I mean these guys are, they have been doing that for the past couple of two, three years.”

So it’s relative, but I’m really happy to be able to achieve that goal. And then Podcasting Press, because of the nature of it, I created the criteria and it goes like this. It’s set remote and it be done remotely. So I can be location-independent. Is it scalable, meaning can I have a thousand clients or 10,000? Maybe, maybe not. But I think logically, like if you could do the math on hiring people and if it’s possible, yes it is. Is it scalable? It’s non-founder-centric, meaning it doesn’t require me to grow. I can be involved, cool, I love it. And there’s like two other more, like do I love what it is? Yes, I love podcasting. And the last one, let’s see. So I talked about scalable, internet, remote… recurrent. That’s the critical one. If there’s no recurrent, predictable income, I will not do it, period. Like I literally got people reaching out on a monthly basis and, “Hey, can you do a onetime episode?” Like “No.” I mean first of all, our price is unbeatable. It’s extremely cheap and I will not do that $25 episode even though it sounds simple. But no. We have everything set up to be a monthly recurrent revenue, it’s predictable income.

Mac: Yeah. And you do have the free trial.

Gabriel: Yes.

Mac: So, man, it’s all really impressive what you’ve learned and built by the age of 26. I’m really impressed…

Gabriel: Thanks man, I appreciate it.

Mac: …just by all the resources that you’ve mentioned. You’ve clearly read up and you go to conferences and you talked to people. It’s really impressive so congratulations on all of that. And congratulations on college.

Gabriel: Thank you.

Mac: What’s your degree?

Gabriel: Yes, it’s IT. It’s called ISDS, Information Systems. It’s kinda like half computer science, half business, which is pretty cool.

Mac: Yeah, sounds relevant. So you’ve talked a bit about where Podcasting Press is going and Q1 of 2017 with advertising and trying to do a little bit more hands-on marketing. What about other services? You’ve been very specific that you do a very specific thing which is I think probably a key to the success so far of it. But I know, I asked you about show notes and things like that. Do you have plans to kinda broaden out into anything else? Or are you gonna stick exactly with the editing?

Gabriel: Yeah, I mean we do offer some show notes right now currently. We have like four clients, you know, they are in their $500 a month package. So we said, “Hey, you have show notes, we can manage it and it’s simple to do.” But the only reason I haven’t been like totally committed to that, its very subjective. So audio editing, it can be match on a one to ten. It’s very subjective, it’s not true or false. It’s always gonna be I like it or I don’t. And so I’m definitely gonna make a decision specifically about show notes. There might be another couple of related service that we might be able to do, for example like YouTube. There is a lot of YouTube content creators that they have video and they would like to convert it to a podcast.

So that’s very similar to what we do already. It wouldn’t be a distraction, it wouldn’t be another set of skills. It can be a lot of value. So you have a YouTube that has 300 videos, they can definitely launch two, three podcasts out of their existing content without having to do any work. So that’s something that in the next quarter where we’re planning to release two or three of those services that we can help a lot of content creators continue to expand their brand. But if it’s something that it’s gonna distract us, or for example, if I’m gonna lose a client because he didn’t like the show notes, I’d rather not do show notes.

Mac: Right. Yeah, I can see that. And even the way I think about it, it is subjective enough. It seems like the people would have to… I don’t know if even an interest is necessary, but like some sort of understanding of the topic to know what to extract from that episode, to know what to highlight and to know how to make a compelling title that’s relevant. There’s a lot of… I mean, it’s hard even for me when I’m the one creating the episode. So I can definitely see that being tricky.

Gabriel: Yeah.

Mac: Okay, this has been awesome. I do wanna say that I’m jealous of your ability to realize what you’re good at and make sure that you’ve got other people doing the things that don’t make sense for you to be doing. I have a hard time with that, which is why I was editing my first bunch of episodes all by myself and I was like, “Oh, this is fine. This is good enough, and I can do it. I don’t need to pay someone to do this.” And then I was talking to someone and they’re like, “You don’t need to do that. You know, how many hours did it take you?” And I was like, “Ah, not too many, but my time is more valuable.”

And so point is I was recommended to Podcasting Press and still I thought, “Actually, I don’t know that I need this. That’s not really gonna save me that much time.” But I saw that you had the two-week trial to do two episodes and I said, “Ah, it can’t hurt. I’m just gonna try it.” And it’s been amazing. I think I’ve had you do three or four episodes and, not only does it save me more time than I expected. Even as someone who I wasn’t really doing tedious editing, I was just doing very basic stuff, and even still, it’s been a big benefit to me, but also the quality of it just comes back way better than anything I was doing. And so I appreciate it, and congratulations on all of it.

Gabriel: Awesome, man. I was excited to hear that. Yeah, like it gets me going.

Mac: Well Gabe, thank you so much for being on the show and I really appreciate your time, and best of luck.

Gabriel: Thanks Mac. I appreciate it. And hopefully I get to see you whenever I get down to Portland.

Mac: That would be good, I love it. Thanks.

Gabriel: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Mac: All right, take care.